The Hateful Eight

Dustin: 4 of 5 stars Nick: 3 of 5 stars Average: 3.5 of 5 stars (Live canary)

Dustin: The Hateful Eight is a sequel to The Magnificent Seven, following the recent release of the classic western’s prequel, The Ridiculous Six (right?). It’s an “ark movie”--a mixed bag of characters thrown together at random in order to survive an ordeal (in the words of Roger Ebert)--set in the American frontier in the tradition of Stagecoach, but with the violence of Sam Peckinpah’s and Sergio Leone’s westerns, and the bloodiness that is a trademark of Quentin Tarantino.

Nick: The Hateful Eight is a beautiful-looking film with a great cast of characters and some of the best Quentin Tarantino dialogue he’s ever written, but the film really could have used a producer who could convince the auteur director that a three-hour runtime that is mostly talking with little plot might be better if he cut at least 20 minutes out of his film.

Dustin: I didn’t think Tarantino’s writing was quite as sharp here compared to his other films. But I’m not sure that’s a fair criticism, because the writing is still so much better than the average Hollywood film. I agree it was a bit overlong, but I wouldn’t know what to cut.

Tarantino is so great at creating tension within scenes. So much so it’s almost overwhelming. My favorite Tarantino scene was the beginning of Inglorious Basterds when Christoph Waltz’s “Jew Hunter” was talking to a man who had a Jewish family hidden in his crawl space. The Hateful Eight has many such scenes where the stakes are life and death and Tarantino draws them out to the point where you can barely stand it. I don’t know any other filmmaker who is quite so talented in that respect.

Nick: I’m not convinced the movie needed to be broken up into chapters like some of Tarantino’s previous efforts. The only reason I can think they would be necessary is the chapter that starts a flashback to show what happened before John Ruth (Kurt Russell), Daisy Domergue (Jennifer Jason Leigh), and Major Marquis Warren (Samuel L. Jackson) enter that hellish haberdashery.

Dustin: I don’t really have an opinion one way or the other about whether it needed to be broken into chapters. It did establish continuity with Tarantino’s earlier films, an idea, I think, that was borrowed from the Japanese film Lady Snowblood, but it wasn’t strictly necessary. The flashback could have been more seamlessly woven into the film, like the movie’s spiritual ancestor, Leone’s Once Upon a Time in the West, which used a flashback to spectacular effect.

Nick: I wonder if Tarantino used the “N word” so much in this film as a response to lots of people being upset that he used it to the degree that he did in Django Unchained. I’m not for or against it, but was curious if it was a simple artistic choice, a retaliation or a mixture of the two. The film is being called very mean-spirited as well for all the violence and gore especially that done to *gasp* a woman!... who was a violent murderer. I thought those scenes where she was hit in the face were played off as funny maybe because I laughed every time. Domergue would say something against Ruth and get punched in the face. Domergue spits on the letter from Lincoln, and Warren punches her in the face and so on. Most of the extreme violence in Tarantino films I think are supposed to make the audience cringe with laughter. The amount of blood that comes spewing out of two characters who are poisoned at some point in the film seems quite over-the-top and had me cringing with laughter.

Dustin: I think that word is historically accurate, and in the context of the film was appropriate. It is put in the mouths of racist characters, and doesn’t mean the writer himself is racist. Although part of me suspects Tarantino likes the idea of being a white person getting away with using that word.

Having said that, this was a very mean-spirited film, which did somewhat hinder my enjoyment and prevented me from giving it five stars. There are other violent films that are actually very kind-spirited (see Schindler’s List). But here, every character is despicable with few or no redeeming qualities. In the end, the racist sheriff turns out to be the only character who has an arc that could be seen as not-so-mean spirited. He goes from being a slimy Confederate lost-causer to somewhat allying with Samuel L. Jackson’s former-Union bounty hunter. But that was a very small point in the movie. There was a part when Jackson was talking to Bruce Dern (the Confederate), and I was thinking they would have a “moment,” but it turned out Jackson was really manipulating him into a gunfight.

Nick: It was more like Jackson was getting him to draw first so he could shoot him within his rights. So I was curious on what you think of “Why wouldn’t John Ruth recognize the other gang members of the Domergue clan who were all worth quite a pretty penny?” I just had this thought. It’s been three weeks since I saw the movie so there might have been something that I can’t remember. If there is I will delete the question!

Dustin: I don’t know either. It’s possible they weren’t long-time members of the gang. Good point, though.

Also, why is it called “The Hateful Eight” when there are more than eight people in the haberdashery?

Nick: Only Eight of them are Hateful!

Dustin:  Also, it’s Tarantino’s eighth film and it resembles “The Magnificent Seven.”

So… What did you think of the rape scene?

Nick: I thought that scene was way over the top and was easily the most mean-spirited moment, but it might have been the only thing to make the Confederate draw his gun. I think it would have been better as just a story Warren tells the Confederate, but then they actually showed images of the supposed forced fellatio.

Dustin: Showing the images made me think it was supposed to be literal, even though other movies have showed images we couldn’t trust (Rashomon).

I had a problem with that scene, as it turned my opinion against Jackson’s character. Granted, the Confederate’s son had deliberately sought out Jackson to murder him, so he sort of gave up his rights at that point, but it was still pretty dirty. There was also a rape scene in Pulp Fiction, my favorite of Tarantino’s movies, but that one didn’t bother me as much as we already disliked the characters involved.

Nick: I never believed it was actually happening. I thought it was the Confederate imagining the action. Regardless, that moment definitely lets the viewer know that there will be no heroics in the film.

Dustin: There was a lot I liked about the film. The constant tension mentioned earlier, the cinematography, and especially Ennio Morricone’s soundtrack.

Nick: Those are the things I enjoyed as well, but adding some of the dialogue. This is sadly my least favorite Tarantino film. Jackie Brown movies up a spot! It’s possible after repeat viewings I would come to appreciate it more, but the funny thing is I have no intention of ever watching the film again unless it's in theaters showing on 70mm, and I have never not wanted to watch one of his films a second time.

Dustin: How would you rank Tarantino’s filmography?

Nick: It’s difficult because I sometimes rate films on how much I enjoyed them compared to  how well they are made, but Tarantino really goes back and forth between each film in those two ways. But here’s a try:

1. Pulp Fiction
2. Kill Bill
3. Inglourious Basterds
4. Django Unchained
5. Death Proof
6. “The Man from Hollywood” segment from Four Rooms
7. Reservoir Dogs
8. Jackie Brown
9. The Hateful Eight

Dustin: My order:

1. Pulp Fiction
2. Jackie Brown
3. Kill Bill
4. Django Unchained
5. Reservoir Dogs
6. Inglourious Basterds
7. The Hateful Eight
8. Death Proof